Not that Im really doing this all that whole-heartedly. Calvin as a Ferengi LOL!!! This is a big issue for me, because theres a difference in believing in PSA and believing it is central to the Gospel or that believing a different atonement theology is a different Gospel. Dee, thank you for sharing that testimony, and article. I will post about this. No. Question: @netgrace was involved with Vineyard Duluth and did a great job. Westboro Baptist uses the Bible for a proof text for hatred. from what Ive seen here, youve always been a gentleman and tolerant of others who do not believe as you do. Per the God as author of evil thing, Ive only ever heard of one Calvinist who came close to saying this and it was Sproul Jr. Every kindness & every meanness I do sends ripples outward and I birth the future by my words and deeds. With fear and trembling I'll list Sren Kierkegaard. I dont know why I didnt think of this earlier. Does this sound like a CULT(TM) to you? Some of his hearers might have been scared as, uh, heck. 4) Christ died NOT for us, but to bring glory to the Father. Gordon Fee 30. He is still in a leadership position within the church. I think that this is the reason why, in some cases (not including anyone in the present discussion), that a robust discussion is not possible. Bummer. Wow. Jimmy Draper. I grew up with a no talk policy and then experienced the same restrictions in church later on when I experienced abuse. I believe that this misunderstanding puts the m FAS sis on the wrong sil LA ble, on the misunderstood sovereignty as misunderstood, instead of on the love that God, as our creator father (dada), has for us, enough love to experience the indignities of life in the first century in the middle East, to be persecuted, and to die a horribly painful and disgraceful death by torture in public, all for our benefit. In response to the devastation of a hurricane: @JohnPiper: Your sons and daughters were eating and a great wind struck the house, and it fell upon them, and they are dead.Job 1:19 I have been given books and literature from Lin wrote: But my point wasnt to proof text Calvin. John Piper truly had no idea why his tweet from Job 1 caused an uproar. @ Hester: Not in the sense that Calvinists view PSA, I think. We each probably believe that the venue we hold to is the best and most accurate. Dr Abraham Kuyper (1837-1920) was a Dutch Calvinist theologian, philosopher and politician. So this is a goal for myself, as my family is growing up and I am finding a bit more time. I was challenged to think, to serve, to teach and to grow. Jeff, above is one of my major objections to Calvinism as presented by adherents is the notion (however sincerely believed) that non Calvinists read the scriptures to suit their own fancy. In fact, as Sproul describes what he sees as the sovereignty if God, his view is the latter- that God exercises his sovereignty by choosing what he allows and what he does not. Let me backtrack. FWIW, Ive run across many Calvinists (not teachers) who misunderstand Total Depravity. @ Steve D: And what is an ocean but a multitude of single drops? There are some who would consider me non charitable. The fundamental non-negotiables of our faith, those that if not agreed upon prevent us from calling each other brothers or sisters are found in 4 ancient creeds. Dee, your post brought back child hood memories of Boston. B. Warfield said, "The Calvinist, in a word, is the man who sees God. That's pretty darn impressive, and many many . 21st-century Calvinist and Reformed theologians Eastern Orthodox [ edit] 12th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians 13th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians 14th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians 15th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians 16th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians 17th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians Purity of Ideology, Dee. Based on my experience, the experience of Oasis both of us who have had very difficult childhood abuse experiences and other stories Ive been reading, especially of teens abandoning their faith, having emotional breakdowns and even suicide, why do we need to focus on Calvins system? LOLGod works in mysterious and wonderful ways! Ill have to look that one up. If you think I should be sensitive and hold my tongue at times, then I agree. Is not the whole batch totally leavened regardless of the amount of yeast? I guess there will always be that tension there. We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless! I have the utmost respect for my long-time regular reader and pastor who happens to be Calvinist, Craig Vick, who posted the following comment on my blog article where I was struggling with the doctrinal/abuse confusion: For what its worth, from now on Ill make sure I think of your story and the stories of others before I express my theology. CALVIN!. Why can we not focus on God and Jesus and what He did for us? I found an interweb site a while back that had a downloadable version of Calvins Pentateuch (as I call it, by analogy rather than because it contains five of anything in particular). I want to say here that I dont think that God takes pleasure in these events and I dont think that God forces people to sin, even in their thoughts. "A missionary is a qualified Christian sent out under the authority of a local church to an area of recognized need in order to pursue the work of the Great Commission." It needs to be dealt with directly and honestly, a complicated complex mature topic. Thanks for posting it. And I would especially like to thank Jeff S for demonstrating how to explain and defend in great charity Calvinism and why he holds to those beliefs. I want people to love God and love their neighbors. 1) That article. I do believe that some brands have harmful elements that bring extra despair as if every day life doesnt bring enough. The response to an authoritarian and oppressive environment is not to create another one where Calvinism is not tolerated. One section was exploring happiness. Please, please, please, keep us posted on your son in law. As some of you know, I have been through my share of abuse, not nearly as graphic and terrible as some, but enough to leave its scars. And it wouldnt matter to me if what the person said was true or not. By which they really mean: God hasnt given you the grace to perceive; or, as my mother in law likes to say to end all discussion I just know that I know that I know. I.E. Calvinist believe in the total depravity of man while Arminians hold to an idea dubbed "partial depravity." Calvinism: Because of the Fall, man is totally depraved and dead in his sin. To me, that question is the greatest challenge to Christianity there is. Im sure there are believers in every venue. Ill have to look that one up. My hubby got his first spiritual stirrings while watching a live performance of, Jesus Christ Superstar. [footnote]For more on what Calvinism espouses, see https://laikostheologos.com/introduction-to-soteriology/%5B/footnote%5D. With the Internet, you never know. I think that is why it is good that Dee/Deb use the term Cavinista. Thank you, Deb. Of late it has been a struggle not yo become angry at some YRR who belittle my longtime walk with the Lord because I am not a Calvinist. 8520 / YR. New Geneva Theological Seminary - Colorado. Jeff Swith respect, I have never asked anyone to shut up. No one likes to see (what they think is) a good doctrine maligned, especially if it leaves the real culprit at large. He sets a great example and I appreciate his ability to charitable in discussing beliefs that others dont believe or accept. What scientists call the laws of nature we call normal operations of the sovereign God. I guess what Im trying to say is: No one forces any of us to comment; but once we do we are obligated to defend our ideas. In SGM, most of us were pretty demure. You are still lost in your finite mind. Sometimes I get it right, sometimes I get it wrong. They probably have read other books about Calvin doctrines, but never the original. I saw this is a problem, and I do think Deb and Dee have addressed it. I think that is biblical. The need to defend comes when a closely held belief is blamed for atrocities. Ever. When a baby is born, mamas milk comes out as colostrum a very thick yellow substance perfectly designed to meet babies need exactly at the newborn stage of life. ++++++++++++++++. God is NOT in control. Dee blast from the past! Somehow He organizes His Will and human free will in accomplishing His ends. I was drawn to the faith forseveral years due to my reading as well as viewing Billy Graham on the television. He is noted for a broad view of what constitutes Protestant "orthodoxy." I chose to believe in the sovereignty of God and the goodness of God, even though I dont understand how those two things can co-exist. Man is unable to save himself and, therefore, God must initiate salvation. I am sure that I didn't pray correctly. There appears to be a loss of respect for those who are not Calvinist in their thinking. My hubby got his first spiritual stirrings while watching a live performance of, Jesus Christ Superstar. What Julie Anne is saying is also elaborated by Christa Brown in chapter 46 of her book This Little Light as well as here: http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/ravagedfaith.html. A person who has been abused should get A LOT of leeway in airing their feelings, because for a time (maybe a LONG time), the value of their free expression is more important than trying to protect a viewpoint. That was not the case with Pete Briscoe as pastor. Hes describing man, not God. At first, I thought I had missed something in my Christian walk. If we are acting primarily out of love, this becomes good works and is worthless. You can find this sort of material by googling for it. But it doesnt quite fit the way they think and theres cracks that they dont see They simply describe the regular, normal way in which God manages or governs his universe. I dont experience this extreme attitude from you at all. I may be wrong, but I get the feeling that you dont want Calvinists to be completely honest about what they believe in the current discussion, because someone may be hurt. Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Lutheranism all come to mind off the top of my head. How one can be labeled an Arminian after a decade and a half as an SGM bobblehead is beyond me. There are some big ones where I do not agree (for example, he is quite patriarchal, even though he doesnt make as big a deal about it as some of the more outspoken complementarians).
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